advice for buying a laptop

[Christian Baer]

Hey guy and gals! :-)

For most of my life I have lived quite happily without a mobile computer
(as in a laptop). I do own an 8" Android tablet which to me is more like
a phone than anything else. It's not really good for writing longer text
s.

The future has it in for me in that I will traveling a fair bit among
other things for my sports club. Because I need a computer on these
trips I intend to buy a laptop within the next 6 weeks or so.

It may be that I am strange, but I actually like the older T-Series by
IBM or Lenovo much more than most newer machines. They have great
keyboards and the machines themselves are hard to break. They are just
built well. There is a store near where I live where they sell
refurbished Laptops and they have a whole bunch of T520s there - which
is exactly the model I am currently looking at. Since I am buying this
with my own money, I don't mind spending a little less. :-)

I don't care about gaming performance. That's not what I need it for.
Most of my work will include writing (probably 80% TeX, lots of emails,
some letters). There will be some work done specifically for my sports
club (which requires special Windows software) - and yes, I will try to
get it to run with wine. :-) There will be some Firefoxing and some
video watching while I am on the train. This is the basic usage profile.

I will be running a dual-boot system with Windows (hopefully 7) and I
also want to run FreeBSD. This is where you guys come in. Laptops often
contain evil hardware which will not work too well with Linux, BSD and
the like because of missing or broken drivers. Will this be a concern
with the T520? Even if the work I do would be possible in theory, I do
not plan on working through a frame buffer!

Here is some info about the laptop:
https://support.lenovo.com/de/en/documents/pd015761

Do you think that this machine will work well with FreeBSD on it? Is
there some other machine I should take a look at? While looking around,
I noticed the T520 and liked it (because I have used it before), but I
don't know every model out there and thus I am open to suggestions.

Thanks for your input and advice!

Best regards,
Chris

[Niklaas Baudet von Gersdorff]

Post by Christian Baer
https://support.lenovo.com/de/en/documents/pd015761
Do you think that this machine will work well with FreeBSD on it? Is
there some other machine I should take a look at? While looking
around, I noticed the T520 and liked it (because I have used it
before), but I don't know every model out there and thus I am open to
suggestions.

Make sure that the notebook doesn't have NVIDIA Optimus. It works with
bumblebee on Linux but I am not sure whether it does on FreeBSD.

If I bought a new notebook, I would go for T4<something>0s. I would get
a s(lim) version because they are much lighter and much thinner. Since
you want to use it when being mobile, you should think about this.
T4<something>0s are also much lighter than their T5<something> variants.
The display is a bit smaller but with a resolution of 1900x<something>
you're good to go.

My T420 is six years old and I use it everyday nearly all the time. It's
running smooth, so quality of these notebooks is great. I don't know
about the newer series though, but probably it's the best you can get
out there. If I bought a new one, I would at least go for a T430s, maybe
even a newer model.

Also think about saving some money for a SSD. They're definitely worth
every cent.

Niklaas

[Brandon J. Wandersee]

Post by Christian Baer
Do you think that this machine will work well with FreeBSD on it? Is
there some other machine I should take a look at? While looking around,
I noticed the T520 and liked it (because I have used it before), but I
don't know every model out there and thus I am open to suggestions.

I've been using the T520 as my primary machine for almost five years,
and love it. As Niklaas said, make sure you get the model that does not
have Nvidia Optimus; I would add that you should make sure the model(s)
they have for sale feature the Intel WiFi chip, rather than the stock Realtek
chip. Intel wireless has worked flawlessly for me, while the Realtek
that originally came with my machine would drop connections at least a
couple times per day.

If you wish to dual-boot, the machine does allow you to connect multiple
disks to it---the optical drive can be removed and replaced with an
Ultrabay adapter for another 2.5-inch disk, and there's an mSATA port
beneath the keyboard. That would give you a lot more flexibility and
simplicity, and a lot less hassle, than trying to install two operating
systems on one disk.

[David Christensen]

Post by Christian Baer
It may be that I am strange, but I actually like the older T-Series
by IBM or Lenovo much more than most newer machines. They have great
keyboards and the machines themselves are hard to break. They are
just built well. There is a store near where I live where they sell
refurbished Laptops and they have a whole bunch of T520s there

These sites are useful:

https://wiki.freebsd.org/Laptops

http://people.freebsd.org/~bcr/laptop_article.html

Post by Christian Baer
I don't care about gaming performance. That's not what I need it
for. Most of my work will include writing (probably 80% TeX, lots of
emails, some letters). There will be some work done specifically for
my sports club (which requires special Windows software) - and yes, I
will try to get it to run with wine. :-) There will be some
Firefoxing and some video watching while I am on the train. This is
the basic usage profile.
I will be running a dual-boot system with Windows (hopefully 7) and
I also want to run FreeBSD.

Dual+ boot is a PITA -- been there, done that, got the scars. I prefer
one small, fast SSD for each OS instance. I'd get a laptop with an easy
to swap HDD/SSD or a laptop that can hold 2+ drives.

Post by Christian Baer
Make sure that the notebook doesn't have NVIDIA Optimus.

I've had the best luck with Intel parts -- processors, chip sets,
graphics, sound, networking, etc.. Other brands just cause problems
and/or don't last -- especially NVIDIA.


I was looking for a used laptop that is known-good with FreeBSD a few
months back:


http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/2016-March/270997.html

I never bought one, but my searches led me to Dell Inspiron with
second-generation Core i processors. Latitude and/or Precision are
appealing, but it's hard to find examples without NVIDIA or ATI graphics
(other than brand new, which are very expensive).


Let us know what you buy and your experiences getting FreeBSD onto it.


David

[Niklaas Baudet von Gersdorff]

Post by David Christensen
I never bought one, but my searches led me to Dell Inspiron with
second-generation Core i processors. Latitude and/or Precision are
appealing, but it's hard to find examples without NVIDIA or ATI
graphics (other than brand new, which are very expensive).

I forgot to mention System76:

https://system76.com/laptops

At least they're Linux compatible and you won't pay for a Windows
license (in case you might have a spare one lying around or don't need
one). Anyway, I don't know how they work with FreeBSD, but maybe you can
contact them and get a reply.

Niklaas

[Brian W.]

Any of the Lenovos with ThinkPad branding have a very good keyboard. They
are often very non windows OS compatible and a fine choice.

Brian

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Hash: SHA512
Hey guy and gals! :-)
For most of my life I have lived quite happily without a mobile computer
(as in a laptop). I do own an 8" Android tablet which to me is more like
a phone than anything else. It's not really good for writing longer text
s.
The future has it in for me in that I will traveling a fair bit among
other things for my sports club. Because I need a computer on these
trips I intend to buy a laptop within the next 6 weeks or so.
It may be that I am strange, but I actually like the older T-Series by
IBM or Lenovo much more than most newer machines. They have great
keyboards and the machines themselves are hard to break. They are just
built well. There is a store near where I live where they sell
refurbished Laptops and they have a whole bunch of T520s there - which
is exactly the model I am currently looking at. Since I am buying this
with my own money, I don't mind spending a little less. :-)
I don't care about gaming performance. That's not what I need it for.
Most of my work will include writing (probably 80% TeX, lots of emails,
some letters). There will be some work done specifically for my sports
club (which requires special Windows software) - and yes, I will try to
get it to run with wine. :-) There will be some Firefoxing and some
video watching while I am on the train. This is the basic usage profile.
I will be running a dual-boot system with Windows (hopefully 7) and I
also want to run FreeBSD. This is where you guys come in. Laptops often
contain evil hardware which will not work too well with Linux, BSD and
the like because of missing or broken drivers. Will this be a concern
with the T520? Even if the work I do would be possible in theory, I do
not plan on working through a frame buffer!
https://support.lenovo.com/de/en/documents/pd015761
Do you think that this machine will work well with FreeBSD on it? Is
there some other machine I should take a look at? While looking around,
I noticed the T520 and liked it (because I have used it before), but I
don't know every model out there and thus I am open to suggestions.
Thanks for your input and advice!
Best regards,
Chris
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[Manas B]

Lenovo's T430s is a good laptop. I haven't used it with FreeBSD but I have been running Debian on it for over a year. I am running Debian testing on it now, with KDE. It works generally well, krunner crashes frequently and I recently had to get drivers for the bluetooth card but otherwise it is stable and reliable.


Manas

[Valeri Galtsev]

Post by Brandon J. Wandersee

Post by Christian Baer
Do you think that this machine will work well with FreeBSD on it? Is
there some other machine I should take a look at? While looking around,
I noticed the T520 and liked it (because I have used it before), but I
don't know every model out there and thus I am open to suggestions.

I've been using the T520 as my primary machine for almost five years,
and love it. As Niklaas said, make sure you get the model that does not
have Nvidia Optimus; I would add that you should make sure the model(s)
they have for sale feature the Intel WiFi chip, rather than the stock
Realtek
chip. Intel wireless has worked flawlessly for me, while the Realtek
that originally came with my machine would drop connections at least a
couple times per day.

With Intel WiFi adapters I would suggest to stay away from latest ones,
specifically 7xxx and 6xxx (like 6205, 7260, etc). They will not work (did
not work for me). They need some modifications to wireless stack, after
which their drivers written for Linux could be adopted/modified for
FreeBSD (as far as I understood the developer who can do/does that from
his post). If I'm wrong here, I really would like to see reference to what
I can do to make one of these WiFi adapters work...

Valeri

Post by Brandon J. Wandersee
If you wish to dual-boot, the machine does allow you to connect multiple
disks to it---the optical drive can be removed and replaced with an
Ultrabay adapter for another 2.5-inch disk, and there's an mSATA port
beneath the keyboard. That would give you a lot more flexibility and
simplicity, and a lot less hassle, than trying to install two operating
systems on one disk.
--
:: Brandon J. Wandersee
:: --------------------------------------------------
:: 'The best design is as little design as possible.'
:: --- Dieter Rams ----------------------------------
_______________________________________________
https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Valeri Galtsev
Sr System Administrator
Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics
Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics
University of Chicago
Phone: [phone]
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[Polytropon]

Post by Christian Baer
It may be that I am strange, but I actually like the older T-Series by
IBM or Lenovo much more than most newer machines. They have great
keyboards and the machines themselves are hard to break. They are just
built well. [...]

I use a IBM T60p and Lenovo R61i myself - "still" great machines to
work with. Especially when you use an SSD and think about what software
you install, you get up-to-date (!) average performance out of those
things, even when they are already 5+ years old. :-)

Last year I made a Dell Latitude D630 with FreeBSD 10, and it works
better than my home Aldi PC! :-)

Post by Christian Baer
I don't care about gaming performance. That's not what I need it for.
Most of my work will include writing (probably 80% TeX, lots of emails,
some letters). There will be some work done specifically for my sports
club (which requires special Windows software) - and yes, I will try to
get it to run with wine. :-) There will be some Firefoxing and some
video watching while I am on the train. This is the basic usage profile.

Nothing the mentioned machines cannot handle.

Post by Christian Baer
I will be running a dual-boot system with Windows (hopefully 7) and I
also want to run FreeBSD. This is where you guys come in. Laptops often
contain evil hardware which will not work too well with Linux, BSD and
the like because of missing or broken drivers. Will this be a concern
with the T520? Even if the work I do would be possible in theory, I do
not plan on working through a frame buffer!

If you can, use a live system to check (start from USB or CD/DVD).
But as far as I know, all the parts of the machines I own are fully
supported, even the wireless. The only thing I really didn't care
about is the fingerprint reader as I have no use for it.

Post by Christian Baer
https://support.lenovo.com/de/en/documents/pd015761
Do you think that this machine will work well with FreeBSD on it? Is
there some other machine I should take a look at? While looking around,
I noticed the T520 and liked it (because I have used it before), but I
don't know every model out there and thus I am open to suggestions.

Looks good from that list. But it's probably a good idea to give it a
try with a test system prior to paying.

[Bernt Hansson]

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Hey guy and gals! :-)

Hello!

If your looking for a used laptop maybe this one is for you.

http://sunnytechus.com/configuresys/777notebook.htm

[Christian Baer]

Post by Niklaas Baudet von Gersdorff
Make sure that the notebook doesn't have NVIDIA Optimus. It works
with bumblebee on Linux but I am not sure whether it does on
FreeBSD.

Actually, I was going to avoid that like the devil avoids holy water.
:-) My boss has one of those chips in his laptop running Suse Linux and
he says even there it totally sucks rocks. There seem to be issues with
this multi-processor concept (which reminds me a bit of big little),
however, the driver can't seem to decide on when to use which core.

Post by Niklaas Baudet von Gersdorff
If I bought a new notebook, I would go for T4<something>0s. I
would get a s(lim) version because they are much lighter and much
thinner. Since you want to use it when being mobile, you should
think about this. T4<something>0s are also much lighter than their
T5<something> variants. The display is a bit smaller but with a
resolution of 1900x<something> you're good to go.

I haven't looked at all the details but to me it looks as though the
T520 and T420 are very similar. They seem to have the same case and
keyboard (although the overall size may differ). The reason I went for
the T520 ist because AFAIK this is the last Thinkpad that was made with
this keyboard (and all those dedicated keys). I have worked with a T60
(somehting) in the past and I loved it, so I know what I am talking
about. This however still had the label of IBM.

In case this isn't completely clear, I'll let Louis explain what I
mean... :-)

Post by Niklaas Baudet von Gersdorff
My T420 is six years old and I use it everyday nearly all the
time. It's running smooth, so quality of these notebooks is great.
I don't know about the newer series though, but probably it's the
best you can get out there. If I bought a new one, I would at least
go for a T430s, maybe even a newer model.

Which model do you suggest? Isn't the T520 newer than the T420?

BTW. I will not be using my laptop "all the time". Here at work I am
sitting in front of 2 27" screens with 2560x1440 and I am typing this on
an IBM Model M keyboard. At home I had to give up my Model M because my
new computer no longer had a PS/2 port. So there I now have a Corsair
K70 with Cherry MX Blue switches. The Thinkpads may be good, but they
are not that good. :-)

Post by Niklaas Baudet von Gersdorff
Also think about saving some money for a SSD. They're definitely
worth every cent.

I've already thought about it and decided to get one. May "workstation"
at home (I also use it for gaming although it has an E3 as the CPU) has
had an SSD since the beginning and I don't want to be without it
anymore. Even FreeBSD boots crazy fast. :-)

Best regards,
Chris

[Christian Baer]

Post by Valeri Galtsev
With Intel WiFi adapters I would suggest to stay away from latest
ones, specifically 7xxx and 6xxx (like 6205, 7260, etc). They will
not work (did not work for me). They need some modifications to
wireless stack, after which their drivers written for Linux could
be adopted/modified for FreeBSD (as far as I understood the
developer who can do/does that from his post). If I'm wrong here, I
really would like to see reference to what I can do to make one of
these WiFi adapters work...

I am not really up to date on these WiFi chips, but in this case I am
wondering if you mean "latest" in relative terms. Were they the latest
chips when the T520 was current or are they the latest chips now? In
the latter case, the T520 won't have them, so this is not an issue. :-)

Best,
Chris

[Christian Baer]

Post by Bernt Hansson
If your looking for a used laptop maybe this one is for you.
http://sunnytechus.com/configuresys/777notebook.htm

Did someone forget to take down the website after 20 years? :-)

I wouldn't want to work with this on a daily basis, but having one of
these laptops would definitely be cool and wonderfully nerdy! :-P

Best,
Chris

[Christian Baer]

I would add that you should make sure the model(s) they have for
sale feature the Intel WiFi chip, rather than the stock Realtek
chip.

Was this actually an option you could choose when the T520 was new or
were the WiFi chips choses by what Lenovo could get their hands on at
the time? Is there any way of telling this from the outside?

BTW. Do either of these WiFi chips support 5Ghz?

If you wish to dual-boot, the machine does allow you to connect
multiple disks to it---the optical drive can be removed and
replaced with an Ultrabay adapter for another 2.5-inch disk, and
there's an mSATA port beneath the keyboard. That would give you a
lot more flexibility and simplicity, and a lot less hassle, than
trying to install two operating systems on one disk.

That probably won't work for me because I plan to install an SSD and a
normal HD. But I use a dual-boot system on my computer at home and
that works fine for me. Are there more tripwires to consider when
doing this on a laptop?

Regards,
Chris

[Christian Baer]

These sites are useful: https://wiki.freebsd.org/Laptops
http://people.freebsd.org/~bcr/laptop_article.html

Thanks for the links! I can't help but think about how current the
information on these sites actually is. I mean, article is from 2007 and
refers to FreeBSD 4 and 5 (we are talking nearly 10 years here) and I'd
like to think that things may have improved a bit since then. :-)

There is no info on the T520 in the wiki and the info on the T530 is
from 2014. Dunno if it's still current. Can someone verify that?

Dual+ boot is a PITA -- been there, done that, got the scars. I
prefer one small, fast SSD for each OS instance. I'd get a laptop
with an easy to swap HDD/SSD or a laptop that can hold 2+ drives.

So people keep saying. I don't quite get why though. I've been playing
around with dual boot systems since I ran OS/2 2.1 - which is a few
years back BTW. :-) I stuck with OS/2 until Warp4 but even when that was
released, IBM had already dug OS/2's grave. During that time I already
started to play with Linux and due to frustration with the concept of
Linux I went to FreeBSD at v3.3. After seeing the OS/2 boot loader, I
always wondered why the other boot loaders out there (esp. the FreeBSD
one) weren't more like that one.

Today I have a dual boot system at home with FreeBSD for most of my
stuff and Windows 7 for gaming and certain apps I cannot get to run with
Wine.

Have I been missing out on all the fun here? :-P

I've had the best luck with Intel parts -- processors, chip sets,
graphics, sound, networking, etc.. Other brands just cause
problems and/or don't last -- especially NVIDIA.

Is this a general rule or are you only referring to mobile adapter from
nVidia?

I was looking for a used laptop that is known-good with FreeBSD a
http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/2016-March/270997

.html

Interesting
thread. Thanks for the link!

I never bought one, but my searches led me to Dell Inspiron with
second-generation Core i processors. Latitude and/or Precision are
appealing, but it's hard to find examples without NVIDIA or ATI
graphics (other than brand new, which are very expensive).

May I ask why you went to all the trouble researching the hardware an
then never bought that laptop your wanted?

Since I have kept away from mobile hardware for quite a while now, I
don't know much about the mobile graphics cards (chips). In both my
computer at home and in my workstation in the office, I have an nVidia
card installed. Both work very will with the drivers from nVidia. I have
real a lot about the open source drivers having "issues". Normally this
should decrease for AMD graphics because of the open source nature, but
it seems they are mainly targeting the Linux kernel, which doesn't help
FreeBSD all that much.

What's the deal with nVidia's mobile chips?

Let us know what you buy and your experiences getting FreeBSD onto
it.

When I do buy something, I will let you guys know. Currently I am
holding myself back, because when looking around I see more and more
laptops that I would like to have and there is so much potential for
spending *so* much more money than I should, :-)

Best,
Chris

[Bernt Hansson]

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Hash: SHA512

Post by Bernt Hansson
If your looking for a used laptop maybe this one is for you.
http://sunnytechus.com/configuresys/777notebook.htm

Did someone forget to take down the website after 20 years? :-)
I wouldn't want to work with this on a daily basis, but having one of
these laptops would definitely be cool and wonderfully nerdy! :-P

Search and you will find.

[Valeri Galtsev]

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Post by Valeri Galtsev
With Intel WiFi adapters I would suggest to stay away from latest
ones, specifically 7xxx and 6xxx (like 6205, 7260, etc). They will
not work (did not work for me). They need some modifications to
wireless stack, after which their drivers written for Linux could
be adopted/modified for FreeBSD (as far as I understood the
developer who can do/does that from his post). If I'm wrong here, I
really would like to see reference to what I can do to make one of
these WiFi adapters work...

I am not really up to date on these WiFi chips, but in this case I am
wondering if you mean "latest" in relative terms. Were they the latest
chips when the T520 was current or are they the latest chips now? In
the latter case, the T520 won't have them, so this is not an issue. :-)

Sorry, I was not clear enough.

Intel WiFi adapters with model numbers 6xxx and 7xxx require some
additions/modifications to wireless stack on FreeBSD. These adapters will
not work under FreeBSD

Intel adapters with model numbers 5xxx 4xxx and smaller should work under
FreeBSD (were reported to work under FreeBSD) - current FreeBSD stack has
all necessary for these, you may need to fiddle a bit with installing
latest firmware.

This is as far as I know. You may want to check which WiFi adapter the
laptop of your choice has. Relying just on the fact that some laptop is
certified for Linux (they usually will like Ubuntu for it) does not
guarantee that WiFi on that laptop will work under FreeBSD. Namely, all
Intel adapters with model numbers 7xxx and 6xxx will work under Linux, but
will not under FreeBSD. As far as I know, that is; somebody, correct me if
I'm wrong (with the reference to how I can make Intel 7xxx or 6xxx work
under FreeBSD).

I hope, this helps.

Valeri

Best,
Chris
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++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Valeri Galtsev
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Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics
Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics
University of Chicago
Phone: [phone]
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[Kyle Evans]

On Thu, Jun 9, 2016 at 10:02 AM, Valeri Galtsev

Post by Valeri Galtsev
Sorry, I was not clear enough.
Intel WiFi adapters with model numbers 6xxx and 7xxx require some
additions/modifications to wireless stack on FreeBSD. These adapters will
not work under FreeBSD
Intel adapters with model numbers 5xxx 4xxx and smaller should work under
FreeBSD (were reported to work under FreeBSD) - current FreeBSD stack has
all necessary for these, you may need to fiddle a bit with installing
latest firmware.
This is as far as I know. You may want to check which WiFi adapter the
laptop of your choice has. Relying just on the fact that some laptop is
certified for Linux (they usually will like Ubuntu for it) does not
guarantee that WiFi on that laptop will work under FreeBSD. Namely, all
Intel adapters with model numbers 7xxx and 6xxx will work under Linux, but
will not under FreeBSD. As far as I know, that is; somebody, correct me if
I'm wrong (with the reference to how I can make Intel 7xxx or 6xxx work
under FreeBSD).
I hope, this helps.
Valeri

Best,
Chris
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++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Valeri Galtsev
Sr System Administrator
Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics
Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics
University of Chicago
Phone: [phone]
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
_______________________________________________
https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions

Hi,

The 7260 and 7265 seem to work pretty well with iwm(4), and iwn(4)
provides support for some 6xxx chips. Additional firmware required.

Thanks,

Kyle Evans

[Brandon J. Wandersee]

Post by Valeri Galtsev
Intel WiFi adapters with model numbers 6xxx and 7xxx require some
additions/modifications to wireless stack on FreeBSD. These adapters will
not work under FreeBSD.

If you're reading this message, then you can be absolutely certain that
the Intel Centrino 6205 chip---the kind shipped in the exact make and
model of the laptop the OP is interested in---works just fine with
FreeBSD. The 10.1-RELEASE installer automatically detected and
configured it.

[Valeri Galtsev]

Post by Brandon J. Wandersee

Post by Valeri Galtsev
Intel WiFi adapters with model numbers 6xxx and 7xxx require some
additions/modifications to wireless stack on FreeBSD. These adapters
will
not work under FreeBSD.

If you're reading this message, then you can be absolutely certain that
the Intel Centrino 6205 chip---the kind shipped in the exact make and
model of the laptop the OP is interested in---works just fine with
FreeBSD. The 10.1-RELEASE installer automatically detected and
configured it.

Then, stealing someone's phrase, it should have been pilot's error on my
side.

Back to the drawing board. My apologies, everybody, please, ignore what
I've said about Intel 6xxx adapters.

Valeri

Post by Brandon J. Wandersee
--
:: Brandon J. Wandersee
:: --------------------------------------------------
:: 'The best design is as little design as possible.'
:: --- Dieter Rams ----------------------------------

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Valeri Galtsev
Sr System Administrator
Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics
Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics
University of Chicago
Phone: [phone]
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[Brandon J. Wandersee]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

I would add that you should make sure the model(s) they have for
sale feature the Intel WiFi chip, rather than the stock Realtek
chip.

Was this actually an option you could choose when the T520 was new or
were the WiFi chips choses by what Lenovo could get their hands on at
the time? Is there any way of telling this from the outside?

It was, but I skimped on it when I purchased it. It dropped connections
pretty regularly, so I upgraded to the Intel Centrino 6205 later.

BTW. Do either of these WiFi chips support 5Ghz?

The Intel one does, yes.[1]

[1]: http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/wireless-products/centrino-advanced-n-6205.html

[David Christensen]

Post by Christian Baer

Post by David Christensen
Dual+ boot is a PITA -- been there, done that, got the scars. I
prefer one small, fast SSD for each OS instance. I'd get a laptop
with an easy to swap HDD/SSD or a laptop that can hold 2+ drives.

So people keep saying. I don't quite get why though. I've been playing
around with dual boot systems since I ran OS/2 2.1 - which is a few
years back BTW. :-) I stuck with OS/2 until Warp4 but even when that was
released, IBM had already dug OS/2's grave. During that time I already
started to play with Linux and due to frustration with the concept of
Linux I went to FreeBSD at v3.3. After seeing the OS/2 boot loader, I
always wondered why the other boot loaders out there (esp. the FreeBSD
one) weren't more like that one.
Today I have a dual boot system at home with FreeBSD for most of my
stuff and Windows 7 for gaming and certain apps I cannot get to run with
Wine.
Have I been missing out on all the fun here? :-P

My comment is based on my experiences with desktops and servers. I
discovered HDD mobile racks years ago, and have not dual booted since.
My laptop has an easily-accessible HDD bay (2 screws), so I use the same
strategy. (Note that laptop HDD bays and connectors are not designed
for frequent drive swapping. Second HDD caddies that fit into the
optical drive bay are usually recommended for this use case.)


If you're happy with dual-boot, then go for it.

Post by Christian Baer

Post by David Christensen
I've had the best luck with Intel parts -- processors, chip sets,
graphics, sound, networking, etc.. Other brands just cause
problems and/or don't last -- especially NVIDIA.

Is this a general rule or are you only referring to mobile adapter from
nVidia?

General rule (see below for more details).

Post by Christian Baer

Post by David Christensen
I was looking for a used laptop that is known-good with FreeBSD a
http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/2016-March/270997

.html
Interesting
thread. Thanks for the link!

Post by David Christensen
I never bought one, but my searches led me to Dell Inspiron with
second-generation Core i processors. Latitude and/or Precision are
appealing, but it's hard to find examples without NVIDIA or ATI
graphics (other than brand new, which are very expensive).

May I ask why you went to all the trouble researching the hardware an
then never bought that laptop your wanted?

I have a Dell Inspiron E1505 that I bought in 2007. Mine came with a
32-bit processor, and, as best I could tell, they all did. I wanted
64-bit. So, I started looking for a replacement laptop. STFW I found
out that certain later model 64-bit Core Duo processors were known to
work in that laptop. I bought a Intel Core Duo T7400, installed it, and
it works.

Post by Christian Baer
Since I have kept away from mobile hardware for quite a while now, I
don't know much about the mobile graphics cards (chips). In both my
computer at home and in my workstation in the office, I have an nVidia
card installed. Both work very will with the drivers from nVidia. I have
real a lot about the open source drivers having "issues". Normally this
should decrease for AMD graphics because of the open source nature, but
it seems they are mainly targeting the Linux kernel, which doesn't help
FreeBSD all that much.
What's the deal with nVidia's mobile chips?

I can only infer that the leaders of most for-profit corporations
believe that the best way to monetize their intellectual property
investments is by treating them as trade secrets. "You want to use our
hardware? Sign the NDA, License, and Support agreements, and write a
check."


Even if a company (such as NVIDIA) releases a binary driver that "works"
for their engineers on a given computer (proprietary software and/or
FOSS), getting and keeping the hardware working in the general case
without unencumbered vendor assistance is difficult at best.


Intel makes it less difficult by releasing reference source code for
some of their hardware. So, more software works on that Intel hardware.


One alternative to the trade secret approach is open-source hardware:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_open-source_hardware_projects#Computer_systems


(I'm in the market for an open-source hardware SOHO router that runs
pfSense, if anyone knows of such.)


David

[Valeri Galtsev]

Post by Valeri Galtsev

Post by Brandon J. Wandersee

Post by Valeri Galtsev
Intel WiFi adapters with model numbers 6xxx and 7xxx require some
additions/modifications to wireless stack on FreeBSD. These adapters
will
not work under FreeBSD.

If you're reading this message, then you can be absolutely certain that
the Intel Centrino 6205 chip---the kind shipped in the exact make and
model of the laptop the OP is interested in---works just fine with
FreeBSD. The 10.1-RELEASE installer automatically detected and
configured it.

Then, stealing someone's phrase, it should have been pilot's error on my
side.
Back to the drawing board. My apologies, everybody, please, ignore what
I've said about Intel 6xxx adapters.

I confirm, what Brandon said is correct: 6xxx series Intel adapters work
under FreeBSD.

What I said is only applicable to 7xxx of Intel wireless adapters: they do
not work under FreeBSD (need changes to wireless stack). I guess, bottom
line is: avoid Intel 7xxx for now.

Thanks, Brandon, for correcting me!

Valeri

Post by Valeri Galtsev
Valeri

Post by Brandon J. Wandersee
--
:: Brandon J. Wandersee
:: --------------------------------------------------
:: 'The best design is as little design as possible.'
:: --- Dieter Rams ----------------------------------

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Valeri Galtsev
Sr System Administrator
Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics
Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics
University of Chicago
Phone: [phone]
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
_______________________________________________
https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Valeri Galtsev
Sr System Administrator
Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics
Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics
University of Chicago
Phone: [phone]
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[Murk Fletcher]

Hi!

You sound like a creative person. As am I, therefore nothing but the latest
MacBook Pro will do it for me. Product design-wise nothing even comes
close, and the clearness and beauty of the retina screen not only makes it
easier for your eyes, it also makes your work seem more appealing as you
get to see it in greater details.

I usually remove OS X, install Windows 10 with Classic Shell and other
simplifications, and then run FreeBSD/OpenBSD inside VirtualBox. I
therefore get the best of all worlds; all my Unix needs covered via PuTTY
to localhost, plus the ability to run Adobe, Ableton etc. applications
which Windows does a lot better than OS X.

Thanks!

--Murk

On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 7:30 PM, Christian Baer <

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512
Hey guy and gals! :-)
For most of my life I have lived quite happily without a mobile computer
(as in a laptop). I do own an 8" Android tablet which to me is more like
a phone than anything else. It's not really good for writing longer text
s.
The future has it in for me in that I will traveling a fair bit among
other things for my sports club. Because I need a computer on these
trips I intend to buy a laptop within the next 6 weeks or so.
It may be that I am strange, but I actually like the older T-Series by
IBM or Lenovo much more than most newer machines. They have great
keyboards and the machines themselves are hard to break. They are just
built well. There is a store near where I live where they sell
refurbished Laptops and they have a whole bunch of T520s there - which
is exactly the model I am currently looking at. Since I am buying this
with my own money, I don't mind spending a little less. :-)
I don't care about gaming performance. That's not what I need it for.
Most of my work will include writing (probably 80% TeX, lots of emails,
some letters). There will be some work done specifically for my sports
club (which requires special Windows software) - and yes, I will try to
get it to run with wine. :-) There will be some Firefoxing and some
video watching while I am on the train. This is the basic usage profile.
I will be running a dual-boot system with Windows (hopefully 7) and I
also want to run FreeBSD. This is where you guys come in. Laptops often
contain evil hardware which will not work too well with Linux, BSD and
the like because of missing or broken drivers. Will this be a concern
with the T520? Even if the work I do would be possible in theory, I do
not plan on working through a frame buffer!
https://support.lenovo.com/de/en/documents/pd015761
Do you think that this machine will work well with FreeBSD on it? Is
there some other machine I should take a look at? While looking around,
I noticed the T520 and liked it (because I have used it before), but I
don't know every model out there and thus I am open to suggestions.
Thanks for your input and advice!
Best regards,
Chris
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_______________________________________________
https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "

[Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희)]

Post by Bernt Hansson

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512
Hey guy and gals! :-)

Hello!
If your looking for a used laptop maybe this one is for you.
http://sunnytechus.com/configuresys/777notebook.htm
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To unsubscribe, send any mail to

Hello, forgive me if off topic.
Does there use chromebook with BSD?

[Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희)]

Post by Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희)
[...]
Does there use chromebook with BSD?

Sorry for lame writing. Well i am doing work-in-progress in English, i correct word as follow:

"Does there people use Chromebook with FreeBSD?"

Sincerely,

[Brandon J. Wandersee]

Post by Murk Fletcher
Hi!
You sound like a creative person. As am I, therefore nothing but the latest
MacBook Pro will do it for me. Product design-wise nothing even comes
close, and the clearness and beauty of the retina screen not only makes it
easier for your eyes, it also makes your work seem more appealing as you
get to see it in greater details.
I usually remove OS X, install Windows 10 with Classic Shell and other
simplifications, and then run FreeBSD/OpenBSD inside VirtualBox. I
therefore get the best of all worlds; all my Unix needs covered via PuTTY
to localhost, plus the ability to run Adobe, Ableton etc. applications
which Windows does a lot better than OS X.

Putting aside how utterly insane this sounds, it should go without
saying that if someone is asking what hardware to buy then they intend
to run on bare metal, because if you're running in a VM it doesn't
matter what hardware you buy.

[Valeri Galtsev]

Post by Brandon J. Wandersee

Post by Murk Fletcher
Hi!
You sound like a creative person. As am I, therefore nothing but the
latest
MacBook Pro will do it for me. Product design-wise nothing even comes
close, and the clearness and beauty of the retina screen not only makes
it
easier for your eyes, it also makes your work seem more appealing as you
get to see it in greater details.
I usually remove OS X, install Windows 10 with Classic Shell and other
simplifications, and then run FreeBSD/OpenBSD inside VirtualBox. I
therefore get the best of all worlds; all my Unix needs covered via
PuTTY
to localhost, plus the ability to run Adobe, Ableton etc. applications
which Windows does a lot better than OS X.

Putting aside how utterly insane this sounds, it should go without
saying that if someone is asking what hardware to buy then they intend
to run on bare metal, because if you're running in a VM it doesn't
matter what hardware you buy.

Indeed. I remember some 10 or 15 years ago someone said: having a mac is
like driving ferrari. Ford or subaru will get you around same well, but
but ferrari gives you that chic ;-)

Valeri

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Valeri Galtsev
Sr System Administrator
Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics
Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics
University of Chicago
Phone: [phone]
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[Matthias Apitz]

Post by Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희)

Post by Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희)
[...]
Does there use chromebook with BSD?

"Does there people use Chromebook with FreeBSD?"

I run some Acer C720 Chromebooks with CURRENT. What is your question about
it?

matthias

[William A. Mahaffey III]

Post by Brandon J. Wandersee

Post by Murk Fletcher
Hi!
You sound like a creative person. As am I, therefore nothing but the latest
MacBook Pro will do it for me. Product design-wise nothing even comes
close, and the clearness and beauty of the retina screen not only makes it
easier for your eyes, it also makes your work seem more appealing as you
get to see it in greater details.
I usually remove OS X, install Windows 10 with Classic Shell and other
simplifications, and then run FreeBSD/OpenBSD inside VirtualBox. I
therefore get the best of all worlds; all my Unix needs covered via PuTTY
to localhost, plus the ability to run Adobe, Ableton etc. applications
which Windows does a lot better than OS X.

Putting aside how utterly insane this sounds, it should go without
saying that if someone is asking what hardware to buy then they intend
to run on bare metal, because if you're running in a VM it doesn't
matter what hardware you buy.

*+1* !!!! Especially running a VM under M$FT .... *ick* ....

[John Levine]

Post by Murk Fletcher
You sound like a creative person. As am I, therefore nothing but the latest
MacBook Pro will do it for me. ...

OK so far.

Post by Murk Fletcher
I usually remove OS X, install Windows 10 ...

Oh, gross.

FreeBSD under virtualbox works just dandy under OS X. It's not hard
to set it up so that X applications on FreeBSD talk to the native
XQuartz server. Indeed, that's how I'm typing this message.

I used to run native FreeBSD on a ThinkPad, but keeping the X server
working became very painful, and the ports of Firefox and Chrome are
flaky. The Mac has an adequate implementation of most unixy stuff,
web browsers work way better under MacOS than under BSD, and the BSD
VM is there when I want real BSD for things that don't work under
MacOS or when I'm doing development of stuff I'm going to run on my
BSD server in a datacenter.

R's,
John

[Don Harper]

Post by Matthias Apitz

Post by Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희)

Post by Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희)
[...]
Does there use chromebook with BSD?

"Does there people use Chromebook with FreeBSD?"

I run some Acer C720 Chromebooks with CURRENT. What is your question about
it?
matthias

Matthias,
I am not sure of the other poster has a question, but I was wondering if
you ever got suspend/resume working on your C720? If so, can you point
me to some docs or give a quick write-up on where to go look?

Thanks!

Don

[Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희)]

El día Friday, June 10, 2016 a las 10:54:03PM +0900, Byung-Hee HWANG

On 2016년 6월 10일 오후 10시 3분 38초 GMT+09:00, "Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희)"

Post by Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희)
[...]
Does there use chromebook with BSD?

Sorry for lame writing. Well i am doing work-in-progress in English,
"Does there people use Chromebook with FreeBSD?"

I run some Acer C720 Chromebooks with CURRENT. What is your question
about
it?
matthias

For long time i did looking for how-to docs (wiki or blog) including to install *BSD on Chromebook.

Seriously i shoud say that You are perfact guru!

Sincerely,

[Matthias Apitz]

Post by Don Harper
Matthias,
I am not sure of the other poster has a question, but I was wondering if
you ever got suspend/resume working on your C720? If so, can you point
me to some docs or give a quick write-up on where to go look?

As I said to Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희), I own two of these devices and
support one more used by some customer. All of them run a r292778 and
ports compiled with poudriere. I started in January 2015 with this and
followed Michael's blog post here: https://blog.grem.de/pages/c720.html
I think, he was the first making patches (now in head) to support this
device and he gave me a lot of help too. I'm attaching my step-by-step
guide which explains how to tweak the Chromebook to support FreeBSD
boot, how to make a USB key etc.

Suspend until now is not working, at least not in the kernel I'm using.
I will update it soon to a today's head to see how far the support for Haswell
chips is.

matthias

[Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희)]

El día Friday, June 10, 2016 a las 07:09:13PM -0500, Don Harper

Post by Don Harper
Matthias,
I am not sure of the other poster has a question, but I was wondering

if

Post by Don Harper
you ever got suspend/resume working on your C720? If so, can you

point

Post by Don Harper
me to some docs or give a quick write-up on where to go look?

As I said to Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희), I own two of these devices and
support one more used by some customer. All of them run a r292778 and
ports compiled with poudriere. I started in January 2015 with this and
followed Michael's blog post here: https://blog.grem.de/pages/c720.html
I think, he was the first making patches (now in head) to support this
device and he gave me a lot of help too. I'm attaching my step-by-step
guide which explains how to tweak the Chromebook to support FreeBSD
boot, how to make a USB key etc.
Suspend until now is not working, at least not in the kernel I'm using.
I will update it soon to a today's head to see how far the support for
Haswell
chips is.
matthias

Tonight i will discuss to buy C720 with my wife. You are best guy, Matthias!

Sincerely,

[Matthias Apitz]

On Saturday, 11 June 2016 09:27:03 CEST, Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희)

Tonight i will discuss to buy C720 with my wife. ...

Are they really still in the market? Do not buy the C720P which I think,
will not work.

matthias

[Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희)]

[...] Do not buy the C720P which I
think,
will not work.
matthias

Yes. Thank you so much!

Sincerely,

[James B. Byrne via freebsd-questions]

Post by Valeri Galtsev
Indeed. I remember some 10 or 15 years ago someone said: having a
mac is like driving ferrari. Ford or subaru will get you around
same well, but but ferrari gives you that chic ;-)
Valeri

More like a Benz. My MacBook pro 17" is seven years old as of
February past and still runs well. Actually, really well. Before
this I never had a laptop survive more than three years before some
critical piece of irreplaceable hardware failed. Many not even that
long (Sony Vaio ~9 months, HPQ whatever made with LCM chips only
certified to 40C [saved a fortune in costs -- ~$0.005 per unit -- over
chips certified to80C] ~13 months.)

Unfortunately, contemporary Macs are monolithic beasts. Like the
iPhone you cannot even open them to change a battery; much less add
memory or storage. So bye-bye Apple when I finally do have to
upgrade. But the machine I have is wonderful.
--
*** e-Mail is NOT a SECURE channel ***
Do NOT transmit sensitive data via e-Mail
Do NOT open attachments nor follow links sent by e-Mail

James B. Byrne mailto:***@Harte-Lyne.ca
Harte & Lyne Limited http://www.harte-lyne.ca
9 Brockley Drive vox: [phone]
Hamilton, Ontario fax: [phone]
Canada L8E 3C3

[Valeri Galtsev]

Post by James B. Byrne via freebsd-questions

Post by Valeri Galtsev
Indeed. I remember some 10 or 15 years ago someone said: having a
mac is like driving ferrari. Ford or subaru will get you around
same well, but but ferrari gives you that chic ;-)
Valeri

More like a Benz. My MacBook pro 17" is seven years old as of
February past and still runs well. Actually, really well. Before
this I never had a laptop survive more than three years before some
critical piece of irreplaceable hardware failed. Many not even that
long (Sony Vaio ~9 months, HPQ whatever made with LCM chips only
certified to 40C [saved a fortune in costs -- ~$0.005 per unit -- over
chips certified to80C] ~13 months.)

My crude way to predict laptop hardware longevity (or rather to spot the
ones likely to die soon) is: I grab laptop body with two hands on opposite
sides and try to flex it into propeller shape. The easier it flexes, the
higher is likelyhood it will fail soon. As, when used and carried around,
it will flex, which causes system board flex. (common jargon "motherboard"
is used for 20+ years for system board.) The last makes copper leads of
system board go to plastic deformations in some places, become brittle
because of that and finally system board will develop micro cracks of some
copper leads.

This does not guarantee solid built laptop will be good for many years,
but it is good test to rule out ultimate junk.

<rant>
Example of something that passes this test but is bad is (as everybody
praises macs, I will mention bad for balance): MacBook Pro 15 inch
manufactured around 2010 with NVIDIA chip. Soon after warranty (Apple 3
year "protection" plan) ended, newly released MacOS system, if installed
on it, will crash it (cause kernel panic inside nvidia kernel module).
Voila, your 3 year excellent hardware is junk. Is in my book, as the only
reason for me to have macintosh is to support my macintosh users, almost
all of whom are definitely upgraded to latest MacOS as their sysadmin
(myself) recommended. And for that particular laptop system upgrade is a
no-no...
</rant>

Well, sorry about rant. People seem to love Apple so much (which is
confirmed by the $$ they pay), and Apple is great where it is great, but
it has its share of trash (small, let's be fair).

Valeri

Post by James B. Byrne via freebsd-questions
Unfortunately, contemporary Macs are monolithic beasts. Like the
iPhone you cannot even open them to change a battery; much less add
memory or storage. So bye-bye Apple when I finally do have to
upgrade. But the machine I have is wonderful.
--
*** e-Mail is NOT a SECURE channel ***
Do NOT transmit sensitive data via e-Mail
Do NOT open attachments nor follow links sent by e-Mail
Harte & Lyne Limited http://www.harte-lyne.ca
9 Brockley Drive vox: [phone]
Hamilton, Ontario fax: [phone]
Canada L8E 3C3
_______________________________________________
https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Valeri Galtsev
Sr System Administrator
Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics
Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics
University of Chicago
Phone: [phone]
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[Sergey Manucharian]

Post by Manas B
Lenovo's T430s is a good laptop. I haven't used it with FreeBSD but I have been running Debian on it for over a year. I am running Debian testing on it now, with KDE. It works generally well, krunner crashes frequently and I recently had to get drivers for the bluetooth card but otherwise it is stable and reliable.

I'm using Thinkpad T430 with FreeBSD 11-CURRENT for almost a year, everything
works fine.

Sergey

[Christian Baer]

Post by Bernt Hansson

Post by Christian Baer
I wouldn't want to work with this on a daily basis, but having one of
these laptops would definitely be cool and wonderfully nerdy! :-P

Search and you will find.

Search where and for what? I went over the site pretty much but didn't
find anything. I even wrote them an email but so far there was not answer.

Regards,
Chris

[Christian Baer]

Post by Brandon J. Wandersee
If you're reading this message, then you can be absolutely certain that
the Intel Centrino 6205 chip---the kind shipped in the exact make and
model of the laptop the OP is interested in---works just fine with
FreeBSD. The 10.1-RELEASE installer automatically detected and
configured it.

Did it require any additional firmware as another person stated?

Regards,
Chris

[Christian Baer]

Post by David Christensen
My comment is based on my experiences with desktops and servers. I
discovered HDD mobile racks years ago, and have not dual booted since.
My laptop has an easily-accessible HDD bay (2 screws), so I use the same
strategy. (Note that laptop HDD bays and connectors are not designed
for frequent drive swapping. Second HDD caddies that fit into the
optical drive bay are usually recommended for this use case.)

I have actually never seen any of these caddies in action. But I may
quite frequently change from on OS to another which is why I didn't like
the concept of changing the HDs. As you stated, they are not made for
this kind of wear.

Post by David Christensen
If you're happy with dual-boot, then go for it.

Maybe happy isn't the word of choice, but thusfar, it has worked for me.

Post by David Christensen

Post by Christian Baer
May I ask why you went to all the trouble researching the hardware an
then never bought that laptop your wanted?

I have a Dell Inspiron E1505 that I bought in 2007. Mine came with a
32-bit processor, and, as best I could tell, they all did. I wanted
64-bit. So, I started looking for a replacement laptop. STFW I found
out that certain later model 64-bit Core Duo processors were known to
work in that laptop. I bought a Intel Core Duo T7400, installed it, and
it works.

Ok, that is a way of doing it, I guess. Could you also enlarge the RAM
to really profit from the 64 bit CPU?

Post by David Christensen
I can only infer that the leaders of most for-profit corporations
believe that the best way to monetize their intellectual property
investments is by treating them as trade secrets. "You want to use our
hardware? Sign the NDA, License, and Support agreements, and write a
check."
Even if a company (such as NVIDIA) releases a binary driver that "works"
for their engineers on a given computer (proprietary software and/or
FOSS), getting and keeping the hardware working in the general case
without unencumbered vendor assistance is difficult at best.

So what you are saying is that nVidia Chips will work fine with the
drivers provided by nVidia but I am at the mercy of them, should they
decide to drop the support?

Post by David Christensen
Intel makes it less difficult by releasing reference source code for
some of their hardware. So, more software works on that Intel hardware.

AMD is following a similar strategy - if you believe the press releases.
Although their opensource drivers have been in the works for a while now
(with AMD working on them too), they are still a fair bit away from
where nVidia is with their closedsource drivers. I would actually also
prefer an open driver, because then older hardware will be supported for
much longer and an update of X will usually not break the system (or the
driver), however, the drivers for AMD cards were not really ready for
production when I bought my last graphics board.

Post by David Christensen
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_open-source_hardware_projects#Computer_systems

Nothing too spectacular in that list. Actually, there isn't even
anything really current. :-(

Post by David Christensen
(I'm in the market for an open-source hardware SOHO router that runs
pfSense, if anyone knows of such.)

I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you. :-)

Regards,
Chris

[David Christensen]

Post by Christian Baer

Post by David Christensen
I have a Dell Inspiron E1505 that I bought in 2007. Mine came with a
32-bit processor, and, as best I could tell, they all did. I wanted
64-bit. So, I started looking for a replacement laptop. STFW I found
out that certain later model 64-bit Core Duo processors were known to
work in that laptop. I bought a Intel Core Duo T7400, installed it, and
it works.

Ok, that is a way of doing it, I guess. Could you also enlarge the RAM
to really profit from the 64 bit CPU?

I upgraded the RAM to 2 @ 1 GB modules several years ago, which was the
Dell specified maximum. (STFW there are rumors that 2 @ 2 GB works.)
There are other aspects that I'd like to improve, but I've reached the
point of diminishing returns. The laptop works well enough for e-mail,
browsing, office applications, and light tinkering, so I just keep using it.

Post by Christian Baer
So what you are saying is that nVidia Chips will work fine with the
drivers provided by nVidia but I am at the mercy of them, should they
decide to drop the support?

The NVIDIA drivers should work with the hardware and software systems
NVIDIA has designed and tested them for. If/ when you find yourself
outside that scope of support, then your NVIDIA hardware cannot be
expected to work.


David

[Brandon J. Wandersee]

Post by Christian Baer

Post by Brandon J. Wandersee
If you're reading this message, then you can be absolutely certain that
the Intel Centrino 6205 chip---the kind shipped in the exact make and
model of the laptop the OP is interested in---works just fine with
FreeBSD. The 10.1-RELEASE installer automatically detected and
configured it.

Did it require any additional firmware as another person stated?

No, it's handled by the iwn(4) driver.

[Valeri Galtsev]

Post by Brandon J. Wandersee

Post by Christian Baer

Post by Brandon J. Wandersee
If you're reading this message, then you can be absolutely certain that
the Intel Centrino 6205 chip---the kind shipped in the exact make and
model of the laptop the OP is interested in---works just fine with
FreeBSD. The 10.1-RELEASE installer automatically detected and
configured it.

Did it require any additional firmware as another person stated?

No, it's handled by the iwn(4) driver.

I've seen Intel Centrino 6205 with this driver working happily (under
FreeBSD 9.3) with whatever firmware comes with that system, whereas 6235
not. That was what that other person could have mean (or was I that other
person?)

Valeri

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Valeri Galtsev
Sr System Administrator
Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics
Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics
University of Chicago
Phone: [phone]
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++